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Autor Thema: Rayonex  (Gelesen 7931 mal)

Mederic Degoy

  • Forum Member
  • Beiträge: 4
Rayonex
« am: 17. März 2014, 21:42:49 »
Guten Tag/Hello, I will write in English. I would like you to reconsider some new facts about the french Rayonex article (maybe the german one also, but I will only speak about the french).

Inaccuracies:
 - rayonex never speaks of quantic medicine, but of electromagnetic. I personally never use « quantic » as it is so much misplaced and often they only understand the uncertainty principle :) . Rayonex devices only use a pure electromagnetic process. I speak of wave physics and this is enough to understand what happens.
 - the rayonex team you speak about is on the old Rayonex France structure. the new distributor that I founded, Extraordinaire, has nothing to see with these people. You can keep them in a history but not in the current organization (I don’t know MM. Sageder, Popp, Caron…). Of course the therapists still use their devices and do conferences sometimes, like Mrs Duhé or Borghini that I know. We may help them or they may do it by themselves, like any company advertising any product with a user base.
 - SCIO, please don’t mix Rayonex with this crap. My commercial margins are around 1/3 (please don’t publish this on the wiki !!!), with which part I shall advertise, train customers, have offices, people... is this a « extreme margin » ? please don’t reverse « extreme margins » in « ah ! he is spoiled ! » also. Please remove this « extreme margins » info, this is just nonsense and false info. Then, no « spontaneous recovery » presentation has EVER been made under my scrutiny. I stick to medical studies and ask avery therapist to do the same.
 - Extraordinaire just deals with France now, no Italy, belgium, or else. You info on distributors is generally false, please ask info@rayonex.de on the accurate info and they will answer.
 - then, the BIG question : you say « the devices are not recognized by science » (« Les appareils proposés ne sont pas reconnus par la science »). I invite you to read the medical studies Rayonex did since a few years, that said unequivocally that it works. On cells. On double-blind. On clinical trials. Please don’t ignore this fact. The fraunhofer study has been followed by other studies. Fraunhofer was on tens of thousands of cells, in a well-known institute, please don’t undermine the fact that Rayonex is now, since a few years, on a REAL work to get a REAL medical validation, it is the only device to do this scientific validation work in this filed full of pseudo-science.
 - your booh-saying about the CE1 having no value, please check WHO issued the rayonex certificates - a CEII, not a CE1, btw. It is TUV NORD, an unknown underground institute issuing false certificates. I joke. Saying « some do crap with this certificate » is not a FACT about THIS certificate. Nonetheless, the certificate doesn’t says ‘this works’ but ‘this is safe’. please move the "false certificates come from Istambul" to a new, dedicated page about false certificates, because this is only bashing to say it here.
 - for the sake of it, please change the fact that I am a photograph (my father was), by the fact that I am an engineer and, if you want, a serial entrepreneur. True, I also do photo, and bike, and ski. Am I a skier for your Rayonex page ? Indeed, I would love to be recognized as a great photograph, but not by you - or please, look at my photos and send them to your gallerist friends :) I joke. By you, I would love to be recognized as someone able to send you accurate, scientific information and able to change your point of view on Rayonex, being maybe the only serious device with a serious science-focused company, in a field full of crap.

These french translations I did may help you or not, if you want the original complete studies they are in German, if better for you, please check www.thyreogym.de (downloads)

http://pantherapie.fr/revue-etudes/la-revue-pantherapeutique-1/articles-scientifiques/article/les-etudes-medicales-de-rayonex-en


PS: your SSL certificate is flawed.

MD

Mederic Degoy

  • Forum Member
  • Beiträge: 4
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #1 am: 17. März 2014, 22:15:30 »
sorry I forgot the CEII certificate : http://extrao.fr/index.php/image/news/69/IIa_de_en.pdf

Merowinger

  • Gast
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #2 am: 22. März 2014, 17:13:52 »
Dear Mr. Degoy,


Guten Tag/Hello, I will write in English. I would like you to reconsider some new facts about the french Rayonex article (maybe the german one also, but I will only speak about the french).

Inaccuracies:
 - rayonex never speaks of quantic medicine, but of electromagnetic. I personally never use « quantic » as it is so much misplaced and often they only understand the uncertainty principle :) . Rayonex devices only use a pure electromagnetic process. I speak of wave physics and this is enough to understand what happens.
It is not relevant how you call it. You can call quantic medicine, wave physics or orgon or whatever. What is relevant is *proof* for your claim, but here and later in your post -nada.


- the rayonex team you speak about is on the old Rayonex France structure. the new distributor that I founded, Extraordinaire, has nothing to see with these people. You can keep them in a history but not in the current organization (I don’t know MM. Sageder, Popp, Caron…). Of course the therapists still use their devices and do conferences sometimes, like Mrs Duhé or Borghini that I know. We may help them or they may do it by themselves, like any company advertising any product with a user base.
We will happily correct that the organisation of this deception has changed. No problem.

- SCIO, please don’t mix Rayonex with this crap. My commercial margins are around 1/3 (please don’t publish this on the wiki !!!), with which part I shall advertise, train customers, have offices, people... is this a « extreme margin » ? please don’t reverse « extreme margins » in « ah ! he is spoiled ! » also. Please remove this « extreme margins » info, this is just nonsense and false info. Then, no « spontaneous recovery » presentation has EVER been made under my scrutiny. I stick to medical studies and ask avery therapist to do the same.
Very good. Where are these studies? How are they found on pubmed?

- Extraordinaire just deals with France now, no Italy, belgium, or else. You info on distributors is generally false, please ask info@rayonex.de on the accurate info and they will answer.
 
Ok.

- then, the BIG question : you say « the devices are not recognized by science » (« Les appareils proposés ne sont pas reconnus par la science »). I invite you to read the medical studies Rayonex did since a few years, that said unequivocally that it works. On cells. On double-blind. On clinical trials. Please don’t ignore this fact. The fraunhofer study has been followed by other studies. Fraunhofer was on tens of thousands of cells, in a well-known institute, please don’t undermine the fact that Rayonex is now, since a few years, on a REAL work to get a REAL medical validation, it is the only device to do this scientific validation work in this filed full of pseudo-science.
I searched here: http://www.itwm.fraunhofer.de/suche.html
I found reveral cites of rayonex. Rayonex sponsored the fraunhofers on several occasions. In these quotes it is explicitly stated that your "wave physics" bla bla is *not* scientifically recognized. There are *no* reports about successful tests. Where are they published? What about peer review?


- your booh-saying about the CE1 having no value, please check WHO issued the rayonex certificates - a CEII, not a CE1, btw. It is TUV NORD, an unknown underground institute issuing false certificates. I joke. Saying « some do crap with this certificate » is not a FACT about THIS certificate. Nonetheless, the certificate doesn’t says ‘this works’ but ‘this is safe’. please move the "false certificates come from Istambul" to a new, dedicated page about false certificates, because this is only bashing to say it here.
 - for the sake of it, please change the fact that I am a photograph (my father was), by the fact that I am an engineer and, if you want, a serial entrepreneur. True, I also do photo, and bike, and ski. Am I a skier for your Rayonex page ? Indeed, I would love to be recognized as a great photograph, but not by you - or please, look at my photos and send them to your gallerist friends :) I joke. By you, I would love to be recognized as someone able to send you accurate, scientific information and able to change your point of view on Rayonex, being maybe the only serious device with a serious science-focused company, in a field full of crap.

These french translations I did may help you or not, if you want the original complete studies they are in German, if better for you, please check www.thyreogym.de (downloads)

http://pantherapie.fr/revue-etudes/la-revue-pantherapeutique-1/articles-scientifiques/article/les-etudes-medicales-de-rayonex-en

TÜV Nord tested these breast implants by this criminal french guy, too. If I remember correctly. Still no peer reviewed papers etc.

PS: your SSL certificate is flawed.
MD
No. Your browser does not trust psiram.


Mederic Degoy

  • Forum Member
  • Beiträge: 4
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #3 am: 18. April 2014, 17:42:04 »
Hi

Here is another study, I wonder how you will tweak it to claim non-effect, or placebo effect, as this is an in-vitro study on cells showing a +45% in metabolic activity with a mini-rayonex. Maybe we fooled the cells in believing they should work more ? Oh, no, wait, you will say it is a fake, of course ! well, do you job and call the Dartsch institute (their phone number is published) instead of publicly publishing allegations, and you may know the scientific truth instead of spreading your (dis-)belief.

http://extrao.fr/index.php/image/news/243/Test_report_Mini-Rayonex_19.03.2014_englisch.pdf : "The degree of cell metabolism stimulation up to 45 % is very impressive and is obtained after only one day of continuous application."

--- thanks for the updates on the public pages, please also remove the picture of me, this is out of context. Or shall I publish a picture on you on the beach, just to insinuate you are not a scientist ? If you want to put a picture, please use this one : http://www.extrao.fr/?news=251&fi=9&f=medericdegoy.jpg

---on the lack of side-effects for the thyreogym, as you quote some parts of the study, why don't you also quote the parts where the positive effect is undeniable ? You quote someone speaking of the lack of side-effects meaning no effect at all, very good, but not relevant when there is proof of positive effects, on cells, clinical trials and double-blind studies. This quote is just used to insinuate there is no effect in this case, which is plain false.
You do a really good job of investigation on the products and the rest, I wish you will do the same on the studies. I will keep posting new studies this year as a lot of public (hospital) and private studies are under way around the world. Here are the Thyreogym studies, I hope you will read them as the conclusions are clear. It's in german which shouldn't be a problem for you, according to your pseudo.
http://extrao.fr/index.php/image/news/107/9757DE_FB-246_Forschungs-%2Bund%2BStudienergebnisse%2Bzum%2BThyreogym_Rev1.pdf

(PS: Merowinger, do you remember the Merovingian was french, in Matrix ? Now we have something in common  :grins2: )

pelacani

  • Gast
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #4 am: 18. April 2014, 18:01:19 »
Here is another study, I wonder how you will tweak it to claim non-effect, or placebo effect, as this is an in-vitro study on cells showing a +45% in metabolic activity with a mini-rayonex.

There is not the slightest hint to clinical effects, not to speak of peer-review, Pubmed or else. What, do you think, does your “paper” test?
Zitat
A Mini-Rayonex in stationary position is more effective if it is aligned in eastwest direction in accord with the markings on the device.

see also:
Zitat
Integrating Eastern philosophy into firefighting would encourage firefighters to always attack fires from the North, and only on Wednesdays. Insurance rates would be discounted for structures meeting local feng shui building codes.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/integrative-fire-fighting/

Mederic Degoy

  • Forum Member
  • Beiträge: 4
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #5 am: 13. Mai 2014, 14:30:12 »
ahahah very funny. The thing is, there is a magnetic field on earth (do you doubt this ?) ; the device needs to be aligned with it (already heard of the north magnetic pole ? discovered a few centuries ago, maybe you heard of it) to be more effective. Exactly like a TV antenna needs to be focused in a certain direction.
Now, this study proves the effect of this device, on cell metabolism. Sarcasm cannot change the results.
Short story : Prof. Dartsch wanted to prove that is was not effective, because he didn't believe in it. He failed, and he was so astonished by the results, that he made on his own another study proving that "the simulated wound healing process was also stimulated by approx. 20% demonstating that the use of the device is beneficial for the process of wound healing" (I quote him).

Please, make a good joke, I love it. Please also review this study as it deserves, and act accordingly. I would be perfectly happy if you state that you prefer to wait for peer-reviewed publications, but please don't ignore this study and alter your naysaying from your public website according to this information.

pelacani

  • Gast
Re: Rayonex
« Antwort #6 am: 14. Mai 2014, 20:41:08 »
ahahah very funny. The thing is, there is a magnetic field on earth (do you doubt this ?) ; the device needs to be aligned with it (already heard of the north magnetic pole ? discovered a few centuries ago, maybe you heard of it) to be more effective.
Pleased to have pleased you. As soon as you finished laughing, we can move on: Your "paper" (an advertisement) mentions „magnetische Flussdichte von 50 µT“, that is, in the range of the earth magnet field. You seem to assume that this static field of the earth interferes with your interventions (think of “East” and “West”). By comparison, a strong refrigerator magnet has a field of about 100 gauss (0.010 T). The repetitive transcranial magnet stimulation (rTMS) uses pulsed fields of 1,5 to 2 T. Modern devices for MRI have static fields mainly between 1,5 and 7 T. They do not have biological effects, as far as we know. Wouldn't the brain of a person explode while imaging, if you are able to push the metabolism and stimulate cell proliferation?

Zitat
I quote him
From which publication?

Zitat
Please also review this study as it deserves, and act accordingly.
Of course, that is our profession. In
http://extrao.fr/index.php/image/news/107/9757DE_FB-246_Forschungs-%2Bund%2BStudienergebnisse%2Bzum%2BThyreogym_Rev1.pdf
there is a „Anwendungsbeobachtung“, i. e. non-controlled, non-randomized, non-blinded application of the device. It would be a euphemism to call it „study“. And, by the way, in your laughter you may have overlooked:
not to speak of peer-review, Pubmed or else

And finally, look at the disclaimer of your advertisement:
Zitat
Wir weisen darauf hin, dass die klassische Schulmedizin die Wirkung bioenergetischer Schwingungen bislang weder akzeptiert noch anerkannt hat.

Note, that the academic medicine has neither accepted nor approved the effect of biomagnetic oscillations [whatever this may be] to date.


Thank you for your patience. Mine is exhausted.

Zitat
A few moments from now my resentment will have faded & passed & I shall probably even be praying for you; but while there is yet time I hasten to wish that you may take a dose of your own poison by mistake, & enter swiftly into the damnation which you & all other patent medicine assassins have so remorselessly earned & do so richly deserve.

Adieu, adieu, adieu !

-   Mark Twain